AI & PI
- 16 June, 2023
- 2.3GB
Bob Simon is joined by Justice Team member Evan Garcia and Raymond Mieszaniec, co-founder of EvenUp, to discuss AI & PI. Raymond gives insights into what AI is — and isn’t — while Evan shares how AI has helped him maximize his efficiency as a successful personal injury attorney. With tools like these available, get ready for Personal Injury to reach a whole new level!
Evan Garcia, Simon Law Group
Raymond Mieszaniec, EvenUp
Transcript
Bob Simon (00:09):
All right. Welcome to this edition of the Justice Team Podcast. Today we’re talking about AI and PI-
Evan Garcia (00:16):
Ooh. AI.
Bob Simon (00:16):
… how to use artificial intelligence in personal injury cases and those other types of litigation cases. We have two very special guests today. Far on my right, we have Mr. Evan Garcia. Evan, can you say hi to everybody?
Evan Garcia (00:30):
Yes. How you doing? Glad to be here.
Bob Simon (00:32):
So Evan is a trial lawyer. He’s licensed in Texas and California, and he’s recently got some big verdicts and used AI on the fly, which we will discuss. So immediately to my right, if you’re watching on the YouTube channel, but if you’re just listening, we have Ray. Your last name is … It’s Polish, and I can never say it. It’s Mieszaniec?
Raymond Mieszaniec (00:53):
It’s Mieszaniec.
Bob Simon (00:53):
Mieszaniec.
Raymond Mieszaniec (00:53):
So Ray Mieszaniec.
Bob Simon (00:55):
Ray Mieszaniec, who is the co-founder of Evenup, which is a legal tech company. They incorporate AI. He’s up to speed on it. His company just had a very big moment as a company, which we will discuss. So he’s well-versed in this nature, in this stuff.
Raymond Mieszaniec (01:09):
I would hope so. I would really hope so.
Bob Simon (01:11):
Okay. So Ray, I’m going to start with you, man. Can you just tell people, what the fuck is AI? What is it, and what is it not?
Raymond Mieszaniec (01:18):
What is artificial intelligence? Well, essentially, that’s a loaded question. I’ve got to bring in the data scientists here to-
Bob Simon (01:26):
You are the data scientist.
Raymond Mieszaniec (01:27):
I am the data scientist. But we’re essentially trying to teach machines to do things in the way that humans would do, essentially, in their everyday tasks. So for the longest time, people have been looking at technology that it’s like, “If this, then that,” very simple tasks for it to carry out. As we’ve seen technology evolve, using a lot of this tech in your day-to-day workflow’s like you can lose out on the human elements of how you would actually, say, care for your clients or care for your customers, et cetera. So simply put, AI is a way for us to introduce more of a human element back into the use of technology to create efficiency.
Bob Simon (02:17):
I always hear lawyers are afraid in some industries that AI is going to replace them. Why is that not accurate, or is it?
Raymond Mieszaniec (02:27):
Well, what are you thinking?
Evan Garcia (02:28):
Well, you’re certainly more in tune with it, but from my experience, and I dabble a little bit … This is not a very nice thing to say. It’s like a dumb kid. You tell it what to do, and it depends on the queries you put in. But it still takes a lot of work, and in my experience at least, a lot of the results, it comes out inaccurate. So you’ve got to spot check it. So just from my quasi-layperson perspective, it’s not there yet, but sure is going fast.
Bob Simon (03:00):
It’s going [inaudible 00:03:01].
Evan Garcia (03:01):
Yeah, we’ll see. I don’t know. So what’s your thoughts on the 5-year, 10-year, 20-year?
Bob Simon (03:06):
Well, I do think that the lawyers that may get replaced are the lawyers that don’t know how to leverage it or at least use it in some capacity. That’s the honest way that I feel. So force yourself. Take 30 minutes out of your day. Test drive some of these platforms. Ray, what are your thoughts?
Raymond Mieszaniec (03:21):
Well, I love the dumb kid analogy. The thing is, the way I would describe it, you could see it as a dumb kid today, but this dumb kid is actually willing to get smarter and smarter and learn, as long as you’re willing to coach it.
Bob Simon (03:35):
Eat their vegetables.
Raymond Mieszaniec (03:36):
Yeah, and eat their vegetables.
Bob Simon (03:37):
[inaudible 00:03:38].
Evan Garcia (03:39):
Yeah, broccoli.
Raymond Mieszaniec (03:40):
Essentially, the way I would describe it is that, first and foremost, you guys should know we can’t rely on AI to do everything for us today. We need to be the ones to oversee what the AI is actually producing at the end of the day and make sure that it’s correct. It can’t be relied upon 100%. So in terms of what AI is really good at doing today is general purpose tasks. So a lot of people are talking about ChatGPT, how it’s going to take over the world and take over all these jobs and such. But one thing that they don’t understand is ChatGPT is really good at doing general things. It’s general purpose tasks. It’s not good at specialized tasks.
(04:25):
So if we’re telling it to draft any kind of legal documents and stuff, it still requires people with knowledge from the legal sphere to teach it how to do those things. So it relies on the data, the inputs from specialized folks like yourselves to teach it to do the right thing. Otherwise, it doesn’t know how. There’s been things in the news where people are like, “Oh, we asked ChatGPT these legal questions,” and they spewed up garbage, or they lied. It’s because it’s not supposed to.
Evan Garcia (04:58):
Yeah, exactly, and a lot of garbage in and garbage out kind of thing. What I learned, and it didn’t take too long, but there is some know-how in how to query a question. You play with it a little bit, and then I think you start learning how to more properly frame a question. Then the really cool thing is, and I used ChatGPT on a case that I just had, but what was really interesting is … and in live time. Once you give it a query, it gives a response. You can build off the response that it gave you, and in essence, that for me is the best way to hone in on what I’m looking for. It’s obviously very rare that my first question [inaudible 00:05:40].
Bob Simon (05:39):
Well, and then tell us, when you … A recent multi-seven figure verdict on a disputed liability case. A lot of technical stuff in that trial, a lot of science, quasi-science from biomechanical experts and stuff. Tell our listeners some practical tips that you did on the fly in trial to win that case.
Evan Garcia (05:59):
Yeah, and luckily, I had about a 10-day what’s called trailing, where I knew I was assigned to the courtroom. I knew I was going to be starting on this day, and it allowed me to just get ultra-prepared. So some of the things that I was able to do was I had just played around with it, learned how to ask the questions. You can go to YouTube and teach yourself a little bit.
Bob Simon (06:25):
What app did you use?
Evan Garcia (06:26):
Well, and I used ChatGPT, so OpenAI’s free version. You can pay for it. There’s more sophisticated versions. I just went with that one. It’s, I guess, the most famous one. This is a side topic. There’s over 200 AI applications out there that can do all sorts of things, from Bing’s to Microsoft’s to … I think there’s one called SlidesAI, which helps you with PowerPoints. But in any event, going back to how I used it, I had some pretty complicated psychiatric diagnoses and some symptoms that I was unsure how related or what the literature, the medical literature would support, whether they’re connected or not. It allowed me to just go through the thousands of journals out there and find peer-reviewed articles that were published in America and in the last five years. It took me maybe 10 minutes.
Bob Simon (07:18):
Wow.
Evan Garcia (07:18):
It gives you the sites. This is going back to the trust, but verify. I would then go back, and I would Google them, Google Scholar. I’d find the articles. Sometimes you’re reading through these, and you’re like, “Well, that doesn’t really actually apply here.” So you just go back to your query, and you say, “Hey, look, number two doesn’t seem to make sense” or “I don’t think this is related.” It says, “Oh, yeah, yeah. Whoops. Sorry about that. Here’s two more.” You’re like, “Oh, okay. Wow.” So it then armed me with some of the knowledge, and it taught me things that I could then use to either cross examine the expert, or in some instances, I would give it to my expert, and we would talk about it and say, “Hey, what do you think?” He’s like, “Oh, man. Yeah, I hadn’t read this part of the literature. This makes a lot of sense.”
Bob Simon (08:05):
People are always surprised how much we have to be the expert for our experts and spoonfeed. “Here. Did you see this study yet? How about this piece of evidence?”
Evan Garcia (08:13):
Right, right. I think they can be highly specialized, and they’re the best of the best. But they’re still a jack of all trade in, let’s just say, a neuropsychiatric capacity. They may not know of this obscure diagnosis and the most recent literature on it. So it’s just a way to have high fidelity on the information that you’re using and really quickly … It took me 30 minutes, to where I think pre-OpenAI here, it would’ve taken me several days.
Bob Simon (08:42):
Yeah. Another cool thing is, and we’ll talk to you about this, Ray, the ability for it to read PDFs and generate responses and queries off of that. With Evan’s, you can take the scholarly article, if you have a biomechanical expert in our profession, drop in all the articles that these experts rely on, and ask it, “What were the findings of these? What are the sample sizes? What are the deficiencies in these studies?,” because you can keep teaching it, and, “Find me ones that refute these studies.” This is when we’re taking expert depositions. Get the studies these experts will rely on, and run it through. Run it through AI. I used to have to read all of them. It took me, same thing as Evan, forever.
Evan Garcia (09:20):
Forever.
Bob Simon (09:20):
You’re trying to learn this. What does this mean? Then following up with this article. Now you can find them a lot quicker. We used to have to have experts to find this stuff.
Evan Garcia (09:27):
Meanwhile, having to prep for you’re doing the direct of two witnesses the next day. You’re arguing about a lingering motion in limine that hasn’t been resolved and trying to make sure your client’s going to be ready for her testimony in a couple days. So catching time in trial is invaluable. Man, geez, it really allows you to do that.
Bob Simon (09:50):
Our side, we’re not getting paid per hour. It’s per halves. So we have to leverage this technology to be able to be super efficient, where on some sides, they’re like, “Oh, shit. We should be charging two days of work for that.” It’s like, “We did it in 30 minutes.” Ray, tell us what’s going on at Evenup, because you guys are doing a lot of heavy document extraction learning, and where are you taking Evenup?
Raymond Mieszaniec (10:10):
Well, one thing I wanted to note on that point where you’re saying, essentially, a lot of people are looking at AI, where they’re thinking, “Okay. This is a great efficiency play. This is a cost reduction play.” But what you guys just described is like AI is also helping you do things that were unimaginable at one point in time. You’re able to within seconds be able to pull these results or find these things within these documents.
Evan Garcia (10:36):
Literally seconds. It’s seconds. It’s great.
Raymond Mieszaniec (10:39):
It’s incredible, right? So that’s one thing that we need to realize, too. It’s not just an efficiency play, a cost reduction play. But this is helping scale us to be able to do things that we never thought were possible before. That’s where even with Justice HQ and folks wanting to start their own practice, we’re in a time where you can actually be a solo practitioner and compete with some of the biggest players in the space just by building out a lean law firm and being open to the technologies that are available. If some of the bigger players in the space don’t adopt AI, it’s like you could actually be the winner in very few [inaudible 00:11:22].
Bob Simon (11:24):
Yeah, and I think this is where with Evenup, I finally realized what your name actually means. Even up to level the playing field, huh? Because it’s built for plaintiff firms. It took me a while. But yeah, because I saw it as-
Evan Garcia (11:32):
Not surprising, Bob. Not surprising.
Bob Simon (11:33):
I know I’m a little slow. They used to call me Caveman Lawyer when I was in law school.
Evan Garcia (11:38):
No. No way.
Bob Simon (11:40):
[inaudible 00:11:41] this story. I was drunk and just busted the door down where we lived, because I had to get in there. I had to be there. They’re like, “Caveman Lawyer over here, just doing his thing.”
Evan Garcia (11:49):
Wow.
Bob Simon (11:50):
Well, anyway, with Evenup, rising all tides, so we use it for doing demand letters, and I saw that it was the Instagram ads I got all the time. I was like, “Fuck. What is this? I’ve got to look it up.” But I started just doing automation demand letters, 300, 400 bucks to do it. Very well-versed. We use it for medical timelines, too, to be able to quickly analyze what’s going on, what these cases shop to us. But then I found out what you’re really hoping to do is just extract all of the data, the results, and be able to predict the true value of these cases-
Raymond Mieszaniec (12:19):
That’s right.
Bob Simon (12:19):
… on different metrics, even the metric of how good the lawyer is. That’s going to be a driver, too. That’s crazy.
Evan Garcia (12:25):
Wow. Yeah, can you elaborate a little bit on that without giving away a little secret sauce? But that sounds pretty amazing.
Bob Simon (12:30):
Well, you can say what your company raised and the milestone you hit. Now you can talk about it a little bit more.
Raymond Mieszaniec (12:35):
Depends on when we actually post this.
Bob Simon (12:38):
Oh, yeah. Okay. Wait.
Raymond Mieszaniec (12:38):
Yeah. But no, we’re announcing soon. But then hopefully, we can post this in the next couple of weeks.
Evan Garcia (12:45):
So stay tuned, everybody.
Raymond Mieszaniec (12:46):
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, I’ll say it for just in case if we can …
Bob Simon (12:51):
Yeah. Well, you know what? We’ll launch this the day you announce. How about that?
Raymond Mieszaniec (12:56):
Okay. Sounds good.
Bob Simon (12:56):
We’ll do a little launch party.
Raymond Mieszaniec (12:57):
Sounds good. So I’m very fortunate. The team has worked really hard for this point. Honestly, we’re still surprised, too. We’ve grinded over the years to make this happen. But we just recently closed a $50 million round at a $325 million valuation.
Evan Garcia (13:13):
Very cool, dude. Very, very cool.
Raymond Mieszaniec (13:15):
That’s PI tech.
Bob Simon (13:16):
That’s PI tech.
Evan Garcia (13:17):
Ray, how old are you?
Raymond Mieszaniec (13:18):
I’m 30.
Bob Simon (13:19):
There we go.
Evan Garcia (13:20):
Wow.
Bob Simon (13:21):
Crazy. That’s awesome.
Raymond Mieszaniec (13:23):
So a little bit about Evenup. Trying not to make this a sales pitch here or anything, but essentially what we’ve done is we’ve built AI that predicts what personal injury lawsuits will settle for. So telling my friend Evan for the first time, because we’ve never talked about this.
Evan Garcia (13:38):
Wow. Yeah. Yeah, very cool.
Raymond Mieszaniec (13:38):
But essentially, the vehicle of which delivers these predictions, these valuations currently is the demand package. So we help firms basically draft super comprehensive demand packages at scale, comprehensive meaning we calculate all of the damages. We’ll cite verdicts for pain and suffering, the verdicts that are most relevant to the case at hand. So in terms of [inaudible 00:14:00].
Bob Simon (13:59):
Yeah. [inaudible 00:14:01] search even within our firm and say, “Who has verdicts that are like this, who have this type of cervical fusion with this type of age patient?” They’ll be able to quickly predict that for you.
Evan Garcia (14:10):
Wow.
Bob Simon (14:10):
But as far as when they pull the medical records, the thing that I like is it tells you what you’re missing.
Raymond Mieszaniec (14:14):
That’s right.
Bob Simon (14:14):
A lot of lawyers just aren’t sophisticated enough on medicine to see, “Oh, I’m missing a TBI,” or maybe it’s another injury.
Raymond Mieszaniec (14:20):
It’s crazy, and it’s not a problem necessarily with the law firm itself. It stems from medical providers being super disorganized, and when we’re reaching out and we’re asking and saying, “Hey, can you give us the records for this?,” what they return to you, you think it’s complete. But by the time it comes to Evenup, this is where we realize, “Oh my gosh. There’s 50% of the records that are missing here.”
(14:45):
So what we wanted to do was essentially build the AI so that it’s able to identify these things so we can spot the missing bills, the records, infer if there’s a missing provider, and let you know ASAP. If there’s even an area of opportunity that you might have missed, where it’s a potential TBI claim, we flag that for you, because our whole goal is to maximize the value of the claim, leave no money on the table, maximize the value of the claim, and also just let you know if there’s something that’s going to be difficult that you are going to need to spend some time preparing for, like preexisting injuries, all that stuff. We flag it for you. That’s our purpose. That’s our goal.
Evan Garcia (15:21):
Super helpful, and going back to this concept of catching time, there is an unfortunate runway of time. When you order records, you’ve got to wait 30 days. You have to follow up repeatedly. You get half the records, and it’s just a very annoyingly dragged-out process. So having something like that being able to flag you, saying, “Hey, look, you’re missing X, Y, and Z, and you can follow up right away,” pretty cool stuff, man. I get it.
Bob Simon (15:50):
Also, in the bigger picture, imagine a world where a consumer can find the lawyer that’s the best at that specific case based off of real analytics and not fake badges and super lawyers and SEO fake-
Evan Garcia (16:02):
Uh-oh. You talking meritocracy here? Uh-oh. Be careful.
Bob Simon (16:03):
I like that word. Meritocracy.
Raymond Mieszaniec (16:05):
Meritocracy. [inaudible 00:16:06].
Bob Simon (16:09):
[inaudible 00:16:09]. Making shit up.
Evan Garcia (16:10):
I’ve Googled it before.
Raymond Mieszaniec (16:11):
That’s from Ray Dalio. He’s big on meritocracy. Yeah. So the Principles book. Yeah.
Bob Simon (16:16):
You guys are just on a whole ‘nother … 010000.
Evan Garcia (16:20):
Yeah, yeah. You just said, “Nice to meet you” in binary. Yeah.
Bob Simon (16:25):
So some other practical things, Evan or Ray. What else can our listeners be doing, other than exploring? They can reach out to everybody here directly. That’s the A1. You can go to the Justice Team Network page, and we can help you there and guide you with some products. So this is evolving quickly. There’s new ones. You mentioned Slide AI for PowerPoint.
Evan Garcia (16:47):
I think it’s Slide AI.
Bob Simon (16:48):
It is.
Evan Garcia (16:49):
Oh, okay. I’ve been messing with it.
Bob Simon (16:49):
I did that one. I was testing that and a few other platforms yesterday to quickly do PowerPoints, because I do a lot of speaking engagements, say, “I need this. Here’s some critical stuff,” and it’s pretty good. Of course, that took you maybe 60% of the way there. I think that’s important. Now you can use products like Casetext CoCounsel, and it can … So Ray, I want you to explain, why is that product better than somebody using ChatGPT? We were discussing this earlier about teaching the dog different types of ways, because now that we’ve heard … People have caught wind, because there was an article that leaked about your company’s raise. I’ve seen 10 other competitors in your space now. “Oh, we can automate your demand letters in 30 minutes.” Why can’t they catch up?
Raymond Mieszaniec (17:33):
Honestly, it’s all flattering, with a lot of the copycats that come out. But at the end of the day, so the analogy that I like to paint here is this AI works in the same way as you training a dog. So if you’re training a dog, and we’re talking about just your regular household pet, friendly dog at home, you can teach it to sit. You can teach it to come. You can tell it to down. Those are the basic commands that ChatGPT can really, really help you with. But if you want to now have a special service dog, maybe like a police dog or a rescue dog or the service dog that helps the blind-
Bob Simon (18:14):
A German Shepherd trained for six months to kill if it comes in your yard.
Raymond Mieszaniec (18:17):
Like in John Wick, the dog that climbed walls.
Evan Garcia (18:18):
Or help people.
Bob Simon (18:18):
Or help people.
Evan Garcia (18:19):
Or help people.
Raymond Mieszaniec (18:20):
Yeah, or help people.
Evan Garcia (18:21):
That’s okay, too.
Raymond Mieszaniec (18:23):
So those dogs require special training, and it’s no different in terms of how we’re training the AI. The AI, to do those special tasks, it needs special training.
Bob Simon (18:34):
The best training. The best training in that special task.
Raymond Mieszaniec (18:37):
That lies within the data that you feed it, the examples that you feed it. For example, if we’re trying to train it to spot missing bills, records, et cetera, we have to teach it. How does that actually look? We actually have to teach it with humans inputting the thousands and thousands of examples of what that actually looks like. That’s where we can get better and better in terms of spotting that to 100% accuracy.
Bob Simon (19:04):
With your product and Casetext, same thing. There’s so much in the legal research. They have all the cases. They’ve done them for years. If you want to extract quick briefs and motions, that’s the platform to use. It might not be used for, “What groceries will I buy today?”
Raymond Mieszaniec (19:20):
No, no. You can use ChatGPT for that. The thing that people need to watch out for is they’ve got to look out for … The great companies that are doing this really well … Casetext is a great example. I believe Evenup is a great example. The folks that you’ve got to watch out for, there’s a lot of these companies that you call them ChatGPT wrappers, and they’re not bad or anything.
Bob Simon (19:46):
Tinfoil wrap or wiki, wiki rap?
Evan Garcia (19:50):
[inaudible 00:19:51] wrap.
Raymond Mieszaniec (19:51):
More like a tinfoil wrap. So it’s like essentially, they’ll build a UI, user interface, around ChatGPT. There’s nothing more that you can achieve here than you would be able to do if you use ChatGPT directly yourself. But what the user interface really assists you with is prompting. Evan, you were talking about if you know how to prompt the AI, then you can have it do crazy things for you, all the things that you would ever imagine. But that’s the skill in itself that you need to learn, how to prompt. So these user interfaces typically just make prompting easier. They’re just trying to simplify. It’s like, “Okay, just insert whatever. Answer these questions,” and then they basically handle the prompting for you.
Bob Simon (20:34):
So one thing that I do whenever I’m looking to use a product, and I’ve learned this over the past six to eight months, is I see what the company is, who’s involved in the company. I’ll go to Crunchbase. I’ll see these types of things to figure out who’s their leadership, how long they’ve been around, because what you said, I never realized there was a term for it, but I’ve noticed people literally just take something and then just white label it real quick.
Raymond Mieszaniec (20:53):
Correct. Yeah.
Bob Simon (20:54):
I’m like, “That’s not cool.” They’re just selling [inaudible 00:20:58].
Evan Garcia (20:57):
Well, and people are paying … They’re thinking that this is a specialized product, and they’re paying a premium for it. We’re like, “Well, look, that might be helpful, but probably not worth X.”
Raymond Mieszaniec (21:06):
Exactly. It becomes quickly commoditized. It becomes very saturated. At the end of the day, then you realize that you could have actually probably done this with just ChatGPT yourself. So that’s where I highly encourage … I guess if there’s one thing that we can let people take away from this in terms of what would you explore after listening to this recording is go and try ChatGPT yourself. Everybody’s talking about it, but the amount of people that we’ve talked … It’s like, “Have you actually tried it, though?” They’re like, “No.” No, they’ve never opened it. It’s like, “Okay. Open up your laptop right now.”
Bob Simon (21:41):
I hear people where there’s one thing. “Well, AI’s woke. It’s woke. We can’t use it.” I was like, “Guys, do you even know what that means?”
Evan Garcia (21:47):
Yeah. It’s awake. It’s looking at me.
Bob Simon (21:48):
Yeah, it’s awake. Well, guys, if you’re teaching it, are you woke? If you’re the one prompting … Depends on who’s wagging that dog. But let’s do this, because we’re going to wrap up here, and we could do these more episodes, it evolves, and bring everybody back. But let’s talk about, I’ll go first, where you think this will evolve to quickly and how you can use in your practice now AI.
(22:12):
One thing that I think that I’m working on is when we try cases, a lot of times, we get the jury sheets live. Sometimes we’ll be able to get it back to our office to research jurors. We have a jury consultant. We try to look up their social medias, their postings, all these things to see which way they lean on certain things to see if they’d be a good juror for us or not. Well, with AI, you can take that list and then have it search all the profiles and social media for these folks, extract their postings, and give you a real quick writeup of the makeup of your jury very quickly, which takes us now … Attorney time. Think of the attorney time, Evan, that we have in our office, because we have 10 attorneys back in the office, researching this stuff and how it’s applicable.
Evan Garcia (22:53):
Yeah, that’s wild.
Bob Simon (22:54):
It takes us all several hours.
Evan Garcia (22:56):
For sure.
Bob Simon (22:57):
… of manpower of lawyers, which AI can use. So that’s me. That’s where I want to see this go quickly.
Raymond Mieszaniec (23:02):
Yeah. Yeah, I’ll just go next. I think where I really want to see this go is essentially, and I mentioned this earlier, but put more of the human back into the process here. It’s counterintuitive, because everyone’s thinking, “Oh, by using AI, we’re introducing technology, and therefore tech is going to overrun the humans,” and stuff. But the thing is, the AI, again, helps us do things that we never thought were imaginable before. One thing that I see in terms of practices that we work with every day is there’s this huge movement towards, “Okay, let’s use tech and streamline everything and go, go, go.” But they may find themselves cutting corners, and they’re no longer actually spending the time with their clients and learning their story and everything like that. That’s not the goal. You guys know best as trial lawyers the story is what really, really matters.
(23:58):
So essentially, if we’re able to use tech to streamline all of the mundane things and basically buy you more time and focus to spend with your clients and get the requisite information that’s going to help work up the value of the case and tell their stories, that’s what’s most important. That’s where I see great firms I’ve seen using different technologies, like Twilio and other, we’ll say, SurveyMonkey type forms and stuff like that to collect information from plaintiffs around loss of enjoyment and duties under duress. But imagine if you can create or teach an AI to help you handle that intake and help you gather that information and actually talk with your clients to get all the storytelling components of what has changed in their life? How has their life flipped upside down at this point? “I can no longer raise my baby daughter above my head. I used to be able to. But now I no longer have the mobility to do so, and I can only hold her close to my chest.” All of these little factors actually do matter, but we-
Bob Simon (25:00):
I saw a platform where you can … It’s a video, where you can record yourself, and then you can type it in. It’ll look like you’re saying those things. It’s like dubbing your own voice on video, and you can do on repetitions.
Evan Garcia (25:11):
That’s crazy.
Bob Simon (25:11):
Can I have AI just have a phone call for me so I don’t have to fucking deal with it? Imagine talking to a client, and the AI’s just prompting the next question.
Evan Garcia (25:20):
Dude, I’ve seen those ads. It’s almost like a catalog, where you can pick your virtual AI assistant, and you can pick how they look. Then I guess a lot of I’ll call them Fortune 1,000 companies are using this device, this app, program, whatever, and replacing some HR instructional videos and training videos.
Raymond Mieszaniec (25:43):
I use it.
Evan Garcia (25:44):
Yeah, so there you go.
Raymond Mieszaniec (25:44):
I use it. I use it.
Evan Garcia (25:44):
[inaudible 00:25:45].
Raymond Mieszaniec (25:45):
So that’s the fastest way that we could actually pump out training videos, because think of this. We’re sitting here at this table, and we’re like, “Okay, let’s prep for this recording.” It’s like, “Do I look good?,” checking in the camera and everything. It’s like there’s so many factors in your head where you’re like, “Oh, man.” Then I have to record this. I have to read the script and record it. Then it’s like, “Oh, man, I messed up. Let’s rerun this” or “Let’s cut that out,” when you can just prompt the AI and just type in what you want it to say and everything. It does it.
Evan Garcia (26:14):
See, look. I’m telling you.
Raymond Mieszaniec (26:14):
It’s so scalable.
Evan Garcia (26:15):
I’m telling you.
Raymond Mieszaniec (26:17):
You can change your training recordings and stuff like that for the team in an instant. [inaudible 00:26:21].
Bob Simon (26:21):
Yeah. We were filming this in Justice HQ in torrents before I saw Ray on interviews hiring people in one of the rooms over here. Was it the AI, or was it you?
Raymond Mieszaniec (26:31):
No, right now-
Evan Garcia (26:32):
We don’t know.
Raymond Mieszaniec (26:33):
Right now, we’re actually just avatars at this point.
Evan Garcia (26:37):
Yeah. Exactly.
Raymond Mieszaniec (26:37):
This is not even the real Bob Simon, everybody.
Bob Simon (26:38):
Yeah. You guys have to be in a hiring frenzy then.
Raymond Mieszaniec (26:40):
Yeah, we’re hiring like crazy. So obviously, a lot of companies are unfortunately laying off folks and stuff like that. So one thing to mention is we are looking to bring on as many people as we can right now. So if you guys have any good-
Bob Simon (26:56):
Well, the world needs more Canadians, good Canadians like you, eh?
Evan Garcia (26:59):
I’m available as a consultant here, 1099. No, I’m kidding. I think just briefly, the parting two tips I’d have is … Well, one’s a tip. One’s a hope here. But you just can’t avoid this AI wave here, folks. I think you just need to embrace it. Can’t be afraid of it. It’s not hard. There’s YouTube videos out there. Give us a buzz. There’s a lot of ways to educate yourself a little bit to start messing with this, but you’re going to get left behind. The ability to catch time, and for me and a lot of the folks at the Simon Law Group, we have little kids. I have a 5-year-old, a 3-year-old, an 18-month-old. So if I can catch any little bit of time and spend more time with them and my practice and my craft doesn’t suffer, I’m all for it. So I think that would be my recommendation for folks, is just try it.
Raymond Mieszaniec (27:54):
Absolutely.
Evan Garcia (27:54):
Then number two, and not to be dystopian here, but-
Bob Simon (27:59):
What is that word?
Evan Garcia (28:00):
Yeah, right.
Bob Simon (28:00):
[inaudible 00:28:03].
Raymond Mieszaniec (28:03):
That’s a big one. Yeah.
Evan Garcia (28:04):
I read the dictionary to break a mental sweat at night. But jokes aside, and I think you brought it, bringing back the human element. At some point, I think there’s going to have to be some sort of, dare I say, governing body here to help craft maybe some rules here. I’ll pose an interesting query here for you. At some point, I read an article a long time ago, and it was talking about Tesla’s autopilot. What does AI do when confronted with a situation, or let’s just say it’s going to crash, and it has to decide, take out a 45-year-old adult male or a 10-year-old kid. If it’s going to have to do one of the … What does the AI do? It has to be taught that. So who are the-
Bob Simon (28:58):
Get them both.
Evan Garcia (28:59):
Who’s watching the-
Bob Simon (28:59):
Get both as humans.
Evan Garcia (29:01):
It’s just crazy. Who’s going to decide? It’s going to be an interesting time out there, but you’ve got to embrace it and can’t avoid it.
Raymond Mieszaniec (29:09):
Yeah. That’s a scary thought.
Bob Simon (29:11):
I love it. Let’s end dark.
Raymond Mieszaniec (29:12):
Let’s end dark.
Evan Garcia (29:13):
I know, right? Whoops.
Raymond Mieszaniec (29:15):
I think Bob said it best. I’ve heard you speak over at one of the conferences last week. But yeah, if you’re not using AI, somebody else using it will beat you.
Bob Simon (29:28):
Will beat you.
Raymond Mieszaniec (29:29):
The thing is, it’s no different than once upon a time, people being trained on computers or knowing how to use email or being able to use Office. I think growing up, the coolest thing that put us ahead of the game was knowing how to use Google to search how to do things when you don’t know how to do things. I think now the new skill that everybody should learn is how to actually prompt AI.
Evan Garcia (29:58):
Typing. Geez, I think my age, right around 35, everyone I know my age can type real well, but a couple years older than me and maybe not so much. Watching them try to, I guess, with their just fingers peck away, it’s just painful to watch. They’re behind. So to your point, yeah, I think you need to buckle up, be a big boy or gal, and start playing around with it.
Bob Simon (30:29):
All you’ve got to do is download it, test drive it. You can literally talk into it, type into it, and just-
Evan Garcia (30:32):
It’s free. openai.com.
Bob Simon (30:34):
For now, it’s free.
Evan Garcia (30:35):
Well, free … Yeah, exactly.
Bob Simon (30:37):
Yeah. Cool. Well, Ray, Evan, thanks for coming on. We will definitely have you guys back on, and hopefully Evan won’t be so dark.
Evan Garcia (30:44):
I know. I know.
Bob Simon (30:45):
Dark.
Evan Garcia (30:47):
Dystopian.
Bob Simon (30:48):
Congrats, guys, on your success. Evan, congrats on the verdicts and leveraging this stuff. Ray, congrats on your company. I know this is just the start of what you’re doing.
Raymond Mieszaniec (30:55):
Thank you.
Bob Simon (30:55):
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening to this episode of the Justice Team Podcast. Go to the justiceteamnetwork.com if you have any questions, want to watch this episode or others. Thanks for listening, and if you’re watching, thank you, Evan, for not shaving. Ciao.
Raymond Mieszaniec (36:23):
Essentially, a lot of people are looking at AI where they’re thinking, “This is a great efficiency play. This is a cost reduction play.” But what you guys just described is like AI is also helping you do things that were unimaginable at one point in time, within seconds, be able to pull these results or find these things within these documents.
Evan Garcia (36:42):
Literally seconds.
Raymond Mieszaniec (36:43):
It’s seconds.
Evan Garcia (36:44):
It’s great.
Raymond Mieszaniec (36:44):
It’s incredible, and so this is helping scale us to be able to do things that we never thought were possible before.
